Transferring Losses

[Gally]

When I transfer Out of one Fund into another there is the option of setting the OPP value of the transfer in. If I set this to the original OOP of the transfer out fund I will not see the new fund performance because of the C/F and increased OOP.

If I set the value to the transfer value at the time I see the new fund performance in a performance report but not the loss associated with the previous fund. My investment total is also decreased by the loss amount.

What should I do to see the loss remain on the fund that has no shares if it appears in the performance report. i.e if If invest 10000 and have a loss of 2000 then the transfer out is 8000 and a transfer in of 8000 but my invested amount is now 8000. I know I originally invested 10000 but reporting it is only possible by increasing the OOP cost of the transfer in fund, but then I cannot see this funds true performance. I would really like to see this loss remain on the fund transferred out that now has zero shares in a performance report.

Can you please advise what is the 'correct' / best way to handle these transfers and still retain the visibility of losses and original investments. No capital gains accrue so I do not want to use buy/sell when fidelity use switch transfers. Still learning and thanks

[Mark]

Hi Gally,

When you record a transfer out, Fund Manager reduces your OOP cost in that investment by the OOP cost of the transferred out shares. This is not user-adjustable. To keep your overall OOP basis consistent, you probably want to record this same OOP cost in your investment where you are transferring share in. You can use the "Transfer Between" wizard to do this for you automatically. It is true, that if you are looking at OOP based performance in this new fund since inception it will be based off your initial OOP cost, as that whole burden has been passed onto the new fund. If this is not what you want, you may look at a "Between" version, so it takes as a starting point the market value on the beginning date, rather than the OOP cost back to inception. Alternatively, you can look at ROI yields for performance.

[Gally]

Can you please consider adding a memo field for each transfer account as per the standalone transfer in and out.

Your automatically generated memo field whilst correct does not allow easy identification and traceability to account paper transaction records particularly as several transactions are generated when using FIFO or AVG cost methods.

[Mark]

Hi Gally,

Can you clarify your request for me? Do you mean you want a memo field on the "Transfer Between" dialog? What transactions would this memo field be applied to? Currently, there is no memo field in this dialog, the memos are auto-generated. The auto-generated memos give the investment name, shares, and date of the original purchase in the 'Transfer In' transactions. You can of course modify any of these memos in either the "Transfer Out" or "Transfer In" transactions that are generated.

[Gally]

The basic issue is traceability between external accounts and the transactions entered in fundmanager.
Each should have a unique transaction ID that is not only date. I use the memo field for this as it is the only user data entry field that I can use to check the details of a Fund manager transaction against an external record.

In most cases these are 1:1 transactions as would be the case for a single transfer in and transfer out.

Transfer between generate multiple transactions and I would have to edit each auto generated transaction to change the memo field. Too much work and potential for error.

So by adding two memo fields to the transfer between function, one for the 'from' and one for the 'to' you could append or use this data instead of, or as well as, the auto generated memo. I would then be able to see what transaction the entries referred to in my external paper records without further editing.

The key issue of me is that Fidelity UK does not offer transaction download to advisors or investor clients.

In general, I am using the memo field for something I really shouldn't since fund manager does not have anything else that I can use to give me easy auditability to external records.

Consider also a record lock feature to prevent records being deleted or changed once audited/reconciled without asking? I am forever making mistakes when trying to get over 1500 transactions correclty entered and functioning correctly as I learn your software.

The import does not seem to have import fields for transfer? at least not in your web info.

So I guess some of the thing things I make comment on are my lack of knowledge but I have worked on SAP for 4 years so do have a general understanding of transaction systems. Hope this explanation helps.

[Mark]

Hi Gally,

Excellent feedback/ideas, thank you. I do really like the idea of being able to lock records for a given date range, like once you've reconciled. I can also understand how this memo option in the 'Transfer Between' dialog would be helpful. There may be some options on this memo, allowing the user to control whether their memo is used instead, or in addition to, the auto-generated memo.

You're right, the generic transaction import currently does not support transfer transactions. This is something we should add.

[Gally]

Due to the way the Government operates tax free accounts in the UK we have to maintain separate account records for each year with no further investments after the year is over. The only option available is to switch funds in the account.

Consequently at every switch of a fund a Transfer out and a transfer in per investment per account is required and needs to be tracked. I have graet difficulty calculating an OOP for this scenario due to the number of transactions involved.

e.g. If I have invest 1000 in Fund A in each of the years 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003. To make matters worse the investments are made monthly. FIFO or Avg cost generates multiple transactions on transfer.

Equally imagine if I have 4 separate investments in Fund A over 4 years totalling 4000, i.e. 48 separate investments. My transfer requirement may then be to invest this 4000 in two other funds B&C split in a ratio 60/40. All this is handled by my Fidelity investments with the result that each fund A gets split 60/40 into fund B&C for each account.

A fidelity transaction is generated for each transfer which I use in Fund manager. I use the market cost and not OOP as its too difficult for me to track and calculate unless it is a single fnd transfer without a split.

If I could handle each as a pair with a corresponding calculation of OOP then that is all I need from a transfer function. I have tried yours with FIFO and AVG cost but seem to get multiple transfers in. I don't mind this but could they be hidden away as they refer to a single transaction and only show the aggregation in the portfolio editor unless we want to drill down to see the detail. They do after all refer to only one event (i.e. a transfer in).

I would then be able to use your tarnsfer between rather well but as it is at teh moment I would not see the wood for the trees.

I hop this make sense, if not please ignore, it was only a thought and further explanation as I will stick with the single Transfer in/out until I see a way of using a new transfer between in these situations.

Many thanks

[Mark]

Hi Gally,

If you are okay with a single Transfer Out/In then you can definitely do this. You don't have to use the Transfer Between dialog. This dialog is meant to help automate the transfer, and retain all your original cost basis, including amounts and dates. In order to do this, you need 1 transfer in for each different lot that was transferred, since each transfer can only be assigned a single value and date. You could combine the values, but not the dates by using a single transfer in. It is important to maintain the dates for determining long/medium/short capital gains when the shares are eventually sold.