Need help to order manually the investments stack

[Djobydjoba]

Hi Mark,

I'm facing an investments order issue with the investments stack. I hope I can describe it correctly.

My sub-portfolios tree is organized this way:

ROOT
-ACCOUNTS
--Account A
--Account B
-MARKETS
--REGION_A
--REGION_B
--REGION_C
--SECTORS
---SECTOR_A
---SECTOR_B
---SECTOR_C
-VARIOUS
--VARIOUS1
--VARIOUS2

In each final (down-level) subportfolio in the MARKETS branch, I've ordered manually the investments. The goal is to scroll, in the investment based graphs, through indexes, exchange rates, relative strenghts, etc. in a very precise and logical (personal) order, to analyze the graphs/markets and to find ideas to invest in.

For example, REGION_A subportfolio contains all the investments related to North America. In an investment based graph, after this subportfolio has been selected, I've ordered manually very precisely the investments of this subportfolio with the menu Investments > Order command.
I've done the same thing with the investments in the subportfolios REGION_B, REGION_C, SECTOR_A, SECTOR_B, SECTOR_C.

I've never ordered the investments from the MARKETS or the SECTORS subportfolios (parent subportfolios), as they don't directly contain investments, and as I never select them to scroll through my investments (when I study the graphs, I select each final subportfolio of the branch one after an other and scroll through the investments it contains).

In the ACCOUNTS branch, I'm not interested in ordering the investments. In the VARIOUS branch, I'm looking for ordering manually the investments in the VARIOUS1 subporfolio in a certain way.

OK. I've achieved to order the investments in the subportfolios I want the way I want. So, what's the problem? I think that perhaps I was just "lucky" and I have done things not the correct way. When I look at the investment stack from REGION_A, REGION_B etc, the order is correct in each subportfolio, but if I select the parent subportfolio MARKETS and look at the investment stack from it, it's a total mess!

But the issue is: the way I've ordered my investments in subporfolios doesn't seem to work anymore for new investments. For example, if I add some new investments in the REGION_B subporfolio, and re-order them manually by using the Investments > Order command (so, as I am in the REGION_B subfolder), I save the main portfolio, then menu Investments > Revert order (to check if the order is well saved), the new investments go back to the wrong place...

To resume what I think the issue can be, by manually ordering only parts of the total investments stack (parts = the down-level subportfolios I've mentionned), I think there is an issue now with the order in the global stack at the parent levels. Do I have to select the ROOT level and order all my investments (all this mess...) from here? 800 investments... I hope another way could exist...

I think that my understanding of how the investments stack works with the subportfolios tree is really bad. If I order manually some investments in a down-level subportfolio, I don't understand what the consequences can be at a upper level. And not to mention if I move or copy/paste an investment to another subporfolio... In this case the effect on the investments stack is for me indecipherable.

Are there good practices for ordering manually investments in subportolios?

Thanks for your help.

[Mark]

Hi Djobydjoba,

This can get complicated quickly... The one thing to know is that there is only one investment stack. The stack is global, and not memorized on a sub-portfolio basis. When you order the investment stack and are only looking within a single sub-portfolio, it is just filtering out the items in that sub-portfolio out of the whole stack. If you make changes, you are affecting the whole stack. If that investment you moved in the stack is used in other sub-portfolios, the other sub-portfolios will also have that investment moved in the stack. If you want to see the whole stack, turn on the option "Show investments from all portfolios" at the bottom of the "Rearrange Investment Order" dialog.

[Djobydjoba]

Thanks, I think I understand better. So I have to put my hands in the whole stack... that's going to be some work...

I think there could be a little change that could speed the work a lot: when in the windows "Rearrange Investment Order", only looking the investments of a single sub-portfolio, there is one investment that is selected (highlighted blue). This is the investment with the focus, to re-order. So, when "Show Investments From all Portfolios" is selected, that would be very nice if the selected investment could remain selected (and visible) when the whole stack appears. We could see immediately its place in the whole stack without having to find it amongst 1000 investments...

PS : My fear is to lost the manual order of the stack, after a lot of work done on it.
The stack is re-ordered when Investments > Sort by, or Investments > Invert stack menu commands are used. Do you confirm that the manual order of the stack is kept safe, even if theses commands are used, provided that the portfolio is not saved?

[Mark]

Hi Djobydjoba,

Okay, understood on the change request.

Yes, you are correct. The investment stack order is saved as part of your *.mm4 portfolio file. So, if you don't save your portfolio file, there will be no changes to the investment stack order the next to you open that portfolio file.

[Djobydjoba]

Hi Mark,

Thanks very much for having added the change request.

I've reordered the whole stack (at least the major part of it) and the behavior is okay now. When I will add new investments, I will always order them in the whole stack view and not in the filtered stack view (filtered for the current portfolio), in order to avoid any unwanted effect.

A strange behavior though. Considering the sub-portfolios tree described in the first post. Let's say that the selected (current) portfolio is REGION_A. I want to jump to another investment in this sub-portfolio, so menu Investments > Select, I select the desired investment, OK. The investment is displayed. Now, if I scroll down the investments stack (with page down for example), I see other investments after it as I have ordered them. All is good, when I stay in the current sub-portfolio.

Now, I want to display another investment in another sub-portfolio. So menu Investments > Select, I select the desired sub-portfolio and the desired investment, OK. The investment is displayed. But now, if I scroll down the investments stack with page down, I can see that the investments stack as changed. The selected investment has been moved to the top of the stack, so if I scroll down I don't see the other investments after it as I want. To correct this, I have to select menu Investments > Revert Order, then select again the desired investment, and now the order of the stack is okay, as the investment has been selected in the sub-portfolio currently selected.

Do you think this behavior could be modified?

Thanks.

[Mark]

Hi Djobydjoba,

I'm out of the office today (will be back tomorrow). I will take a more detailed look when I get back, but I believe when you switch active sub-portfolios it will pop that selected investment to the top of the investment stack order, and switch to the new sub-portfolio. When you only change investments it will scroll where this graph is pointing to in the investment stack order. I will take a closer look, and let you know if there are any options we can consider.

[Djobydjoba]

Hi Mark,

You've understood but I reformulate anyway:

1) if I change the active portfolio in menu > Portfolio, then select an investment in menu Investments > Select
--> the selected investment is not moved in the stack (order preserved)

2) if I change both the active portfolio and select an investment in menu Investments > Select
--> the selected investment is moved at the top of the stack.

I would prefer that the selected investment be not moved at the top of the stack in both cases.
But if there is any reason for the actual behavior, not a big deal, I'll stick with the #1 way to change the active portfolio.

[Mark]

Hi Djobydjoba,

I've had a chance to look closer at this. It was working as you've described. We have changed it so that as long as you only pick 1 investment from the "Investments / Select..." dialog, it will not modify the investment stack order, no matter what sub-portfolio you pick from. If you pick more than 1 investment from this list, it will still move them to the top of the investment stack order. This change will be in the next release.

[Mark]

Hi Djobydjoba,

FYI, we just released FM 2018, and this change is included in there.

[Djobydjoba]

Upgrade done. Perfect! Thanks.

Congrats for the new release!

[Mark]

Hi Djobydjoba,

Thanks for all your help/feedback, it is appreciated.

[Djobydjoba]

My pleasure, and my benefit too... Thanks for your careful listening of feedback/requests. The features in this new version are a big step forward for my investment/trading processes!

[Djobydjoba]

After several years using Fund Manager, finally I've understood how the investment stack works. The investment stack was the most cryptic part for me, and I think it can be too for some/many people. IMO the documentation is unclear in this area, so the barrier for understanding. (https://www.fundmanagersoftware.com/help/invstack.html). Or maybe it's just me...

The key for me was to understand that the stack in a subportfolio is just the filtering of a unique whole stack, order preserved. As you wrote above in this post:

The one thing to know is that there is only one investment stack. The stack is global, and not memorized on a sub-portfolio basis. When you order the investment stack and are only looking within a single sub-portfolio, it is just filtering out the items in that sub-portfolio out of the whole stack. If you make changes, you are affecting the whole stack. If that investment you moved in the stack is used in other sub-portfolios, the other sub-portfolios will also have that investment moved in the stack. If you want to see the whole stack, turn on the option "Show investments from all portfolios" at the bottom of the "Rearrange Investment Order" dialog.

So in the Rearrange Investment Order dialog, "Show Investments From All Portfolios" means "show the whole stack by disabling the sub-portfolio filtering".

This makes sense, oh yes, but I was not able to think this way by myself.

The following information too should be mentioned/be clearer in the documentation:
- Select command: if several investments are selected they are moved to the top of the stack.
- Revert order: the stack order is reverted to the state when FM was last started

These are important info in order to understand well the logic behind the investment stack, and so to use well the commands select, order, sort by and revert... When the investments stack concepts and commands are well understood, it is absolutely brilliant and great to use with investment based graphs. So I think these important information/concepts should be better explained/detailed in the documentation, because the logical is really not straightforward / intuitive at first glance (and at second), and it is too bad to miss this.

PS: The fact that I order my investments manually (a very carefully designed order) may explain why the understanding of the investment stack concepts was a concern for me. Now that I've understood them, I'm delighted with the way all this works.

[Mark]

Hi Djobydjoba,

Thanks for the feedback. I've updated both the investment stack and order dialog help pages. They were needing some updating, especially related to the stack and sub-portfolios.

[Djobydjoba]

Hi Mark,

Great!

The Revert Order command puts the investment stack back to how it was stored in the currently open portfolio file.

Perhaps you'll be interested to know that when we change the order of the stack, save the portfolio file, and then do a revert order command the order is back to the situation at the opening of the portfolio file, not the situation of the last saving. Not really an issue, don't know if it's by design.