Cash balance is way over actual amount

[davcbr]

I've imported an account with security list in a QIF file from Quicken 2007. I haven't got to the point of tracing out each transaction from 2003, but there is obviously something going on with the cash balance. In Quicken, I had an actual "security" named 'Cash'.
My actual cash balance is $19,100.00 and Fund Manager shows about $77810. The stacked graph seems to indicate it is builing up over the time period; ie it is not a bad start poit or a single error.
Ideas?
Thanx
dc

[Mark]

Hi dc,

Maybe you used a default cash account, and shouldn't have? If your QIF file has explicit cash transactions listed, then you don't need to also have it be your default cash account during the import. I would suggest looking at your recorded cash transactions in the Data Register. Your cash share balance at any point is just the sum of all your transactions up to that date. In the Data Register set the data type to "Transactions (all)", and look at your recorded transactions. Start from the beginning. Do you have extra transactions, some missing, or what is missing/wrong? If you have all the transactions recorded properly, then your share balance will be correct. Once you have the share balance correct, the market value will be correct as long as you keep the share price fixed at 1. To see the recorded share prices, change the data type to "Prices".

For some more detailed step-by-step instructions, see my reply recently at this link:

http://www.fundmanagersoftware.com/foru ... f=6&t=1848

[davcbr]

Thanx for your replies.
I earased all the data file to import again. It looks like I did not set up a default cash account, indeed at this point I looked around a little and could not quickly find what that was all about.
However, when I did the import, I looked carefully at the listing window [BTW, very nice detail you put into this program]. This is a Roth IRA, and in what may be a quirk in my history, I used a fairly old version of Quicken before upgrading to version 2007. Contributions to the account before 2007 were normal. In 2007 and after, all contributions were duplicated. Following are example entries in the QIF file:

In 2003 I put in $3500, and it lists as a simple transfer in:

D11/ 3' 3
NXIn
P2003 contribution & catch-up
U3,500.00
T3,500.00
L[Fidelity Saving]
$3,500.00
^

In 2008 a $6000 deposit is listed as a contibution transfer:

D4/ 7' 8
NContribX
PD-Roth IRA Contribution
U6,000.00
T6,000.00
MMax Contrib 2008
L[Fidelity Saving]
$6,000.00
^

All those listed as "ContribX" are entered twice into Fund Manager. I cannot find anything in the QIF that would cause this. I will continue to examine this, and post agin after I finish this import. I will uncheck the duplicate entries and see where that leads.
Also, after price updating on the previous import, all of the actual securities in the 7/29/11 balance were correct.
Thanx again
dc

[Mark]

Hi dc,

If you look at the "Preview Importing Transactions" screen during the import, do you see that $6,000 contribution listed twice? What are you selecting as your default cash account when you do the import?

That one $6,000 contribution will be recorded as a buy into that cash investment. If you also sold something else for $6,000 on the same date, and marked that cash investment as your default cash account, that would cause the $6,000 proceeds from the other sale to be deposited into your default cash account.

You can also just manually delete these duplicates if you think that would be easier. Do this in the Data Register after the import.

[davcbr]

This may be a fairly long post. I notice taht kwong has posteded "Quicken conversion", and he also is concerned with the cash account. In Quicken, there is simply a cash balance. On Fidelity, the is what would probably pass for a cash "security" named "FDRXX".
I think you need to come up with a tutorial or an easily found post explaining in detail the setup and theory of operation of this cash sub-account. One thing I know is that is a whole lot easier to follow a Quicken account with a simple cash balance than in the Fiselity acount where a stock posts a dividend as cash and that cash then is subtracted out and the "FDRXX" is increased the same amount.

And now we get to the QIF file, and importantly, the translation of this into a Fund Manage account. From what I have seen to this point, it would seem to be very important to do one account at a time. The latest import I have done had the duplicate entries of my "ContribX", which is simply a variation of "XIn" which has a single entry. With an IRA, this is simply Quicken helping with the legal maximum contributions. It is still the same as "XIn", and should be handle the same way. For yearly contributions, it is a small matter to uncheck the duplicate on the import. What of somebody who make bi-weekly contributions?

But this is only one trip point. In my Data Register, the is an entry onder the Cash Account listed as 3/31/06 3.22 transfer in. Here is the QIF record for this transaction:

D3/31' 6
NCash
U3.22
T3.22
L_IntIncTaxFree
^

This is interest on the cash that is generated by the cash account. I do not understand how this is a "transfer in" or how I would use this to track the sources of my various incomes?

D3/30' 7
NIntInc
U12.16
T12.16
^
This entry 'works' in the sense that it shows up as a distribution, and it is labeled "Interest Income" This actually helps, because I made an entry error in Quicken here. It should have the same type "IntIncTaxFree"

The following entry of a dividend in the QIF:

D4/15' 9
NDiv
YUSBancorp
U10.00
T10.00
^
has an entry in the Data Register under "USBancorp", "Distributions - All", but has no counterpart under "Cash".

Perhaps if you try to understand my viewpoint on all this, you can translated to me how all this is supposed to work. It seems to me that your QIF import function is quite incomplete in handling all the Quicken default types. I'm using version 2007, so this is a problem. And then, even with the duplicate contribution entries unchecked on the import, the cash balance is still too high. I have not gone entry by entry yet, but over-all it seems that security purchases do no reduce the cash. The very first "Xin" of $3,000 shows a portfolio vaue = $6,000.

Thanx for your attention to all this. I really like your program, but this really takes me back a bit.

dc

[Mark]

Hi dc,

On an explanation for how the default cash works in Fund Manager, see:

http://www.fundmanagersoftware.com/help ... _cash.html

It works like Fidelity, where you have a specific investment to hold your cash. You choose this investment. You can also choose "None" to not track cash. Understanding and getting the cash account set up right is often tricky. It is complicated by the fact that not everyone tracks it in the same manner. We have tried to give guidance in our tutorials and in the online help, but there is no one universal answer on how to set it up for all accounts. Hopefully after reading the above online help topic you'll have an understanding of how it works in Fund Manager, and then be able to choose the appropriate options when prompted, based off your data.

The latest import I have done had the duplicate entries of my "ContribX", which is simply a variation of "XIn" which has a single entry. With an IRA, this is simply Quicken helping with the legal maximum contributions. It is still the same as "XIn", and should be handle the same way.

Are you saying that for a single deposit you have 2 transactions in your QIF file? A Xin and a ContribX? In your Quicken register, do you have 2 line items also? If you have both a Xin and a ContribX Fund Manager will import both of them.

In the QIF format, the line beginning with an 'N' is specifying the transaction type. A transaction type of "IntInc" is of course an interest distribution. A type of "Cash" is simply an addition or reduction, thus the reason they are imported as you've seen. The 'L' field is the category in Quicken, but those are not used by Fund Manager. It is looking at the transaction type to determine how to record it in Fund Manager. How were you recording your cash interest in Quicken? Did you record it manually somehow? The 2nd way is actually more useful for Fund Manager. Either way will keep your cash balance correct, but the 2nd way allocates it as a reinvested interest instead of just a deposit of cash.

has an entry in the Data Register under "USBancorp", "Distributions - All", but has no counterpart under "Cash".

This sounds like you imported without a default cash account then. If you have a default cash account and when you import you leave on the option at the bottom of the "Preview Importing Transactions" dialog that says "Automatically Record Corresponding Entry in Default Cash Account", you will get this cash side automatically recorded by Fund Manager.

The very first "Xin" of $3,000 shows a portfolio vaue = $6,000.

I am still not clear on this. A single Xin imported should only end up with a balance equal to that Xin. Do you mean because you have both a Xin and a ContribX in your QIF for a single deposit?

[davcbr]

This is getting a little confused. From the time of my first post, I have tried importing a couple of times. The actual first try was based on your suggestion that maybe I should not have used a cas account, so I imported with the option for the cash account to not be created. This ended up with just securities and no cash, so I went back and erased all the *.dat files to start again. This time I did the import saying to use a cash account, and ended up with what I have just presented to you.

"Are you saying that for a single deposit you have 2 transactions in your QIF file? A Xin and a ContribX? In your Quicken register, do you have 2 line items also? If you have both a Xin and a ContribX Fund Manager will import both of them."

If you look at my second post, I show the QIF records as they appear in my file. These are the only entries for these transactions. Entries With "NXin" are treated as I think I would expect, with no duplication. Entries with "NContribX" have duplication. I do notice in the QIF records that have a NContribX have also the lines:
U6,000.00
T6,000.00
Perhaps this is the source of duplication? Again these are NOT duplicated in the QIF under other transactions. Every transfer in shows in the cash graph. A stacked investment graph shows every time a deposit is made the value of the account goes up twice the amount, and I believe it is because the securities simply 'appear' without a debit on the cash.

I'll read the link you have provided, and maybe I can then formulate this a little better.

Thanx again
dc

[Mark]

Hi dc,

I just did a test import of this:

D4/ 7' 8
NContribX
PD-Roth IRA Contribution
U6,000.00
T6,000.00
MMax Contrib 2008
L[Fidelity Saving]
$6,000.00
^

and I now see the problem you were describing. It shows up twice in the import, which is not what I would have expected. Let me look into this, and I'll post back here with an update.

[Mark]

Hi dc,

For default cash account buys/sells that also had a "transfer" amount (the line beginning with a '$') they were incorrectly being double imported. This has been corrected for the next release. If you'd like me to email you a pre-release of 11.4 to use please let me know, along with what version you're using (Personal, Pro, Advisor).

[davcbr]

I'm going out for a while, and I still haven't read the post on handling the cash account.

For now I am using v11.2, and at this point, since there is an understanding of the problem, I don't see a need to load a new version for this.
I did notice that in the QIF file, a transaction that I entered as "Interest Income - tax free" [this is an IRA] that the QIF record shows ---

D11/ 6' 5
NCash
U1.33
T1.33
L_IntIncTaxFree
^
I'm picking up on reading these now, and I see that NCash is the transaction. In the example of my mistaken entry of ordinary "interest income" ---

D11/30' 6
NIntInc
U0.01
T0.01
^
NIntInc is the designation. This is Intuit's fault, or they have some intention with it that is not clear to me. Thus all my tax free interest income is a transfer in, which still has the problem, like my contributions, of not getting spent on the securities. I think that once that is clarified, things will settle into place.

thanx
dc

[davcbr]

BTW, I am looking at Fund Manager Professional

[Mark]

Hi dc,

This transaction:

D11/ 6' 5
NCash
U1.33
T1.33
L_IntIncTaxFree
^

will indeed import as a transfer into the default cash account. The 'L' field is not utilized by Fund Manager, and it just sees this as a addition to cash. The transaction:

D11/30' 6
NIntInc
U0.01
T0.01
^

Will be recorded as a reinvested interest income in your default cash account. I suspect this is how you'd prefer they be recorded. Both ways will give you a correct share balance in your cash, but the 2nd is strictly more accurate, and in performance calculations will give you better performance, since your cash earned this money instead of it just being transferred in.

If you have a bunch of the first kind in your QIF file, you could consider doing a global search/replace of "NCash" for "NIntInc". I would double check you are only affecting these interest income transactions first though.