Using FM with FolioFN investing brokerage

by **lite1** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:09 pm

Newbie ... trial of personal. Seems like I need to use Import of transactions and positions as FolioFN is NOT a supported broker. HOWEVER the import tutorial on 3rd slide ... File > Import > Transactions shows in addition to .QIF and .OFX it lists several brokers including FolioFN; nonetheless, in my actual software the only options are .QIF .OFX and Generic.

I am going to choose .OFX for now as the .QIF choice on FolioFN is for 2004 and earlier software, until advised that there is a better approach. I probably will only want to deal with a couple of years of transaction data rather than all 10 years.
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Upon opening software for first time Account setup wizard popped up. I setup one portfolio labeled as Master. In fact, I will eventually want each folio at the brokerage to be a sub-portfolio of a newly created master. I assume that after creation and data entry that one can move sub-portfolios under a newly created Master (composite) portfolio. I don't want to do a lot of work and then hit a gotcha.

Thanks for cutting my learning curve.

by **Mark** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:29 pm

Hi lite1,

The additional imports you see in the tutorial are because that tutorial is using the Advisor version, which supports broker/dealer interfaces for Advisors, that wouldn't be available to you as an individual investor. If you can download an OFX formatted file from FolioFN, that would be an ideal format to use.

When using the "New Portfolio Wizard", on the last step of the wizard you choose whether to create a new top level portfolio file, or create as a sub-portfolio in an existing portfolio file. You should choose the option to create as a sub-portfolio, and just keep all your sub-portfolios in a single portfolio file. You can always copy/paste or drag/drop your sub-portfolios and move them around, so nothing is set in stone. It is best though to have a single portfolio file (*.mm4), with all your accounts as sub-portfolios in there. Something like this:

Code: Select all: - Master Portfolio - Acct 1 - Acct 2 - etc...

by **lite1** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:41 pm

Thx Mark ... very helpful.
1) Unfortunately from FolioFN I can only download (and then Import to FM) all transactions across all Folios for a date range. I will have to uncheck the transactions that are NOT part of that Folio. I assume this is the preferred method ...
Versus bringing in all transactions as an Import to FM to one sub-portfolio AND then moving them to another sub-portfolio. This would be easier and less time consuming and more accurate as no transactions would be inapproriately duplicated in different sub-portfolios of FM. I don't know whether FM has a "move" or its the "transfer out/in" game. If the "transfer out/in" requires more than just a couple of mouse clicks it would not save me time. If for example, the "transfer" requires entering a date (which I'd do as of the purchase date) this approach would probably be as cumbersome as the brute force approach of sifting through all the imported transactions. My hunch is that I will probably not deal with more than 1,000 transaction records as this will be fairly time consuming. If this is NOT clear, then I will just do the brute force approach.

2) I believe I understand your post, but want to make sure this kind of structure is workable:
Rule is one master portfolio; any number of sub-portfolios which in turn can have sub-sub-portfolios.

Composite Master Portfolio (all investments across all brokerage accounts and strategies)
+All assets at FolioFN (again a composite = sub-potfolio in FM)
* Folio for following newsletter one
* Folio for following newsletter two
* etc.

All assets at Vanguard (again a composite = sub-potfolio in FM)
* Index tracking account
*IRA account

All that are preceded by * are sub-sub portfolios in FM although FM just calls them sub-portfolios.

by **Mark** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:36 pm

Hi lite1,

1) On the FolioFN export, are these transactions coming from separate account numbers? If so, the OFX file should have all the account information, so you can import all accounts in one shot, and Fund Manager will import each different account number into a separate sub-portfolio. I would just give it a quick try, you can always close, and start over. You can also just open up the OFX import dialog, and select the file, and then choose "Only" under the "Accounts to Import From" section, and choose "Scan OFX". It will list all the account numbers in the selected file(s) for import, so you can see what it contains. Upon importing an OFX file with multiple accounts, each account is placed in a separate sub-portfolio, so you shouldn't need to do one at a time, or any moving of transactions/investments.

2) Yes, it sounds like you understand correctly. You have one top-most sub-portfolio, and then you can have as many beneath that, with as much hierarchy as you want to get all the reporting flexibility you want.

by **lite1** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:22 pm

Thx Mark ... you are very supportive.

I have only one account # at FolioFn with 6 folios underneath it, none of which have any separate identifier. I asked FolioFn to pass it to management that NOT having anyway to filter the download of transaction history to just one folio makes it a nightmare to use an external portfolio manager.

I have started the brute force approach, and it is truly a nuisance (not FMs fault). Is it possible for me to download trial of Advisor as that seems to have more options and use it to create Master Portfolio and sub-portfolios; then simply "copy/import" that file into my personal FM software. Trying to think of a work around and if we can arrive at one then I can try to write up some clear notes for anyone else who is using FolioFn. Otherwise brute force approach will have to do.

by **Mark** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Hi lite1,

I'm not familiar with FolioFN, it sounds like you can set up different "folios", but they are just groupings still within a single account?

You can download and use the Advisor version, although I don't think any of the extra features will apply or help here. There is an Advisor interface for FOLIOfn, but I don't believe they make those files available to personal investors. Even if they did, unless you have separate account numbers, you still wouldn't be able to separate your investments, as you'd have the same issue as the OFX interface.

Maybe you can describe the "brute force" method you're using? I might be able to offer some tips. I envision doing a single import for your whole account, and then creating sub-portfolios for each of your folios if you want to group them that way in Fund Manager. You can then just drag/drop any investments from the imported sub-portfolio, into the appropriate sub-portfolio. You can do drag/drop from within the Portfolio Editor window. Drag from the right side, and drop onto the desired sub-portfolio on the left to move an investment from one sub-portfolio to another. You could have a sub-portfolio structure something like this:

Code: Select all: - Master Portfolio - FolioFN Account - folio1 - folio2 - etc... - Account 2 - etc...

by **lite1** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:42 pm

Mark, you are great.
FolioFN has one master account which FM would call a Master Portfolio and then separate folios below that which FM would call a sub-portfolio. I have done my "brute force" approach on one of my folios to create my first FM sub-portfolio.

I think the drag and drop that you describe will be a lot easier and even quicker although the first approach only took about 1.25 hours. I agree with your sense that using the Advisor FM software will not help me as I only have an personal account at FolioFN and they really dumb down how you can download history - essentially it is a large data dump of everything in your Master account for the date range specified. For just one year it is 492 transactions.

Will play more tonight but think I am getting launched and so far I like what I see in FM.

Again much thanks.

by **lite1** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:44 pm

Mark wrote:...

I envision doing a single import for your whole account, and then creating sub-portfolios for each of your folios if you want to group them that way in Fund Manager. You can then just drag/drop any investments from the imported sub-portfolio, into the appropriate sub-portfolio. You can do drag/drop from within the Portfolio Editor window. Drag from the right side, and drop onto the desired sub-portfolio on the left to move an investment from one sub-portfolio to another. You could have a sub-portfolio structure something like this:

Code: Select all
- Master Portfolio - FolioFN Account - folio1 - folio2 - etc... - Account 2 - etc...

Mark, I tried the drag and drop approach but not sure that this will really work!! What I did does move the Investment from one sub-portfolio to another, however it does NOT seem move any dividends, nor does it deduct from the default cash account associated uniquely with each sub-port the original purchase. FWIW, it is more detail, but for now I think I have to go back to brute force approach (also described farther below).

Here is my current structure:
Master Portfolio
FolioFN Newsletter 1
FolioFN Newsletter 2
FolioFN dump of all transactions 1/1/2011 thru 9/10/2012

My three sub-portfolios are at the same level of the hierarchy (at least for now, eventually I might want to make them as you did all under one sub-port FolioFN composite). In order to track performance accurately my understanding of FM is that I should create a default cash investment e.g. Cash_FN_01 Cash_FN_02 Cash_FN_dump and each of these is only used in the corresponding sub-portfolio.

Sub-port Newsletter 1 was done by brute force and reconciles with what Folio website shows and also corresponds with what website shows for %gain for each open position. Dividends seem to have been credited etc. So this seems fine.

This afternoon I did a dump of a larger date range and had 532 transactions that were imported via OFX and FM into the Folio_dump sub-port. I then started dragging (moving) Investments from Folio_dump to Folio Newsletter 2. While the total sub-portfolio value was decreased/increased for Folio_dump/Folio Newsltr 2; the latter sub-portfolio did NOT show any change in the one transaction I had created for Cash_FN_02 when I used the Wizard to create the sub-portfolio and gave it a starting cash amount of $45k.

==============
Brute Force approach:
Use FM import transactions feature and on about the third step of that process when I see the list of transactions (still my group of 532) uncheck all; and sort by date ascending. From FolioFN I get the transaction history for the that particular folio (that I created to track the financial newsletter 1); sort ascending and then print out. Use print out so that I check all the boxes in the FM import that apply e.g. purchase X 50 shares $8888; dividend stock X; and etc.

For now it seems like this is the only way I see to get an Investment and all of the associated transactions for that Investment "assigned" to an FM sub-portfolio; and for the Transactions to be debits and credits to the default cash account uniquely associated with the FM sub-portfolio. While currently brokerages pay virtually nothing on any cash balance, the more important thing is to have a cash default for a sub-portfolio otherwise it would act like it is always 100% invested in the market.

Hope all of this gives you a clearer idea of what I am trying to accomplish. The two primary challenges is that FolioFN only dumps composite transaction history rather than by sub-portfolio; and while they offer OFX download, I am not sure that they have an OFX server setup so that FM could add some automation to my keeping thing upto date after I initially create portfolios. I will find out form themif they have a server that can be accessed. They are a nice discount brokerage with some good features and some quirks - much cheaper commissions than elsewhere.

by **Mark** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:33 pm

Hi lite1,

Thanks for the explanation, I see what you're trying to do now. You're right, moving an investment from one sub-portfolio to another does not change any transactions in any default cash account. It only simply moves that investment. Based on everything you've told me, it seems your brute force approach is the best. Another option is to not track the "folios", and just keep everything in a single account. This would be easier of course, but it is up to you if the extra level of separation is worth the work for you. Going forward, I think you're going to have to continue doing something like this brute force approach, since you only have a single account number.

I don't believe FOLIOfn has an OFX server. You can read some generic description of this issue here:

http://www.fundmanagersoftware.com/faq_ ... upport.php

Asking them to offer one would be a good idea. If they do offer one, we'll add support for it. (While you're talking to them, ask them to give you an option for unique account numbers for each of your "folios".)

by **lite1** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:42 pm

Thx again. Already asked them to pass to mngt to identify folios by a unique ID (they are already doing that internally as I can see that they append my account number with a letter when I have moved one investment from one folio to another). It'd seem that unless they really have sub-account numbers even if they do offer an OFX server, FM will only be able to "dump" the transactions in my composite portfolio so it seems like I would continue to be plagued by having to use my brute force approach.

Using FM with FolioFN investing brokerage

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